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Whatever
I like Governor Palin, it's no secret. But she's certainly not always right, and I don't think she always focuses on the most important issues facing us.
I'm particularly disappointed with her answer to Politico's recent question about the legitimacy (or lack thereof) of the "birther" controversy. You can see her response, a somewhat non-committal answer affirming the right of the people to be interested in whatever they choose to be interested in. Here's what she should have said:
Look, the campaign's over. Barack Obama is the President of the United States. We have serious challenges facing us today, and fighting over his failure to release his original birth certificate is a waste of time and energy. We need to oppose the President's efforts to nationalize our health care, to put bureaucrats in charge of our doctors, to raise our taxes, to destroy our economy with draconian taxes on energy. Every second wasted squabbling over his refusal to authorize Hawaii to release his original birth certificate is a distraction that weakens our efforts to stop him from socializing our entire economy. Next question.
That answer would be honest, focused, politically acceptable to most of her target audience, and a call to more serious action. Responding as she did is little more than pandering to a lowest common denominator.
If you ask me, and keep in mind that I am not exactly a fan,
the answer she ought to have given, assuming her aim is to do the right thing, is to reject the Birthers' argument entirely. Mike Pence did that, and he's no fan of the President. The "it's a distraction" argument misses the point, assuming of course, that one does not subscribe to the belief that Obama was not born in Hawaii.
What I'm saying is, the birthers are quite fanatical, and much like those on the far-Left who wanted Bush impeached, political expediency arguments won't sway them. It doesn't really answer the question. The answer to the birther question ought to be that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, because all the evidence points to that fact. Period.
Well, yes and no...
I'm certain he was born in Hawaii. But it is quite clear that there either does or should exist an original birth certificate form prepared at his birth and submitted to the vital records registry of Hawaii. This has not been released, presumably because the President has not authorized its release. From a legal standpoint, the computer-generated extract of Hawaii's records which he made public during the campaign suffices to establish him as a natural-born citizen of the United States, as far as I'm concerned. But there's no reason for him to refuse to release the original document, and we generally require abundant disclosure of otherwise private data by our Presidents (tax returns, etc.), so I think he should disclose it, or at least authorize Hawaii to confirm or deny that it exists at all in any form.
Which is why I phrased what I think she should have said as I did. It is true that he has refused to release that, and his refusal to do so is what allows the issue to continue to have any legs at all. If he would release it, then one could definitively shut down ALL of the birthers' rhetoric with the truth, not merely a statement as I have just made, that the legal evidence is sufficient.
The reason then is?
I agree that he was born in Hawaii, like you do.
A question then comes up, what the heck is the point of not releasing it? Is it to actually cause a distraction on the far right to:
1. Keep them busy?
2. Make them, and by implication, anyone else who opposes Pres. Obama appear to be radicals?
3. Something that I'm missing?
I've never understood the actual reason for not supplying it. I do know that when my son started school in Kansas, I had to show a State Certified document. A live birth form issued by the hospital was not acceptable. Easy to obtain. His not releasing it has never really made sense to me.
He has released a state certified document...
The thing is, he has released a state-certified document, which is an official certificate, generated by computer from a database maintained by the Hawaii vital statistics registrar, which suffices for all legal purposes. What he won't authorize for release, apparently, is the "long form" certificate originally submitted by the hospital to the vital registry office, which contains additional detail that is not included on the short-form generated by the computer.
I have no idea why he won't release it. The general thinking is that it lists the parents' religion as Muslim or something likewise which he would perceive as embarrassing. Personally, I suspect that Rahm Emmanuel wants to keep the birthers out there, as a way of discrediting all opposition to the President.
Also...
Also, as you note the hard-core people (the same sort of people who still believe the Clintons killed Vince Foster, or who truly believe that Dick Cheney started the Iraq war to help Halliburton) will not be convinced of anything regarding Obama. Thus, my phrasing is also an attempt to explain to them why, whether they are right or wrong, THEY should want to move past the issue. They're not going to be convinced to drop it by arguments over the legality of the computer record extract; explaining how they are making socialism in this country more likely by causing a distraction, that has a better chance, in my opinion, of getting them to get off the issue.
From what I understand, the document Obama has released is the
standard document, so there is no meaningful difference between that one, and the long-form one that is supposedly necessary. The birthers are fanatically convinced that Obama is not a natural-born citizen. Even if he released the supposed long-form version, they would be unpersuaded. They'd just argue that it was a fake, as they did before. As you said, legal evidence won't work, so why would releasing the document work?
I find the suggestion ludicrous that Obama is trying to keep this alive, in order to marginalize his critics. The birthers are self-marginalized, and if you have any evidence of Obama linking criticism of his policies to birtherism, I'll be happy to see it.
And...
If you read what Palin says at the end:
So, she thinks it ought to be an issue, not only because she buys into it to some degree, but also because she is the victim of conspiracies? Tit for tat? What cynical, putrid nonsense.
actually, I agree with her
actually, I agree with her. The moment she stepped onto the platform with McCain, Palin had to deal with the most ridiculous accusations against her. Not because they were true, but were cooked up by a frightened Democratic base who thought this woman would take away Obama's moment of glory (and theirs too) by encouraging Republicans to vote. So she had every right to mention this conspiracy over Obama - she too has been a victim of several.
to have the right versus being right
Has Obama whined repeatedly about the birthers? Nope.
Does Sara Palin "have the right" to complain about whichever accusations against her are ridiculous? Yup.
Is she right to do so? Nope.
Makes he look, small, petty, and graceless, and gives the claims more coverage. If Palin wants to be a legitimate national figure, she needs to gracefully ignore kooky fringe accusations. Complaining about such fringe accusations fires up her most ardent supporters, but only at the expense of broader support.
What you're asking Palin to
What you're asking Palin to do is to play it the way Bush played it: just ignore 'em. I think Orin Kerr made a point about this not long ago, however, that made sense to me: that one reason the base loves Palin is precisely because she does fight back. She doesn't just lie there and take the abuse. "Complaining" is the wrong word: the narrative works for her. Fairly or not, many conservatives feel put-upon and victimized by the left, and as much as they identified with Bush when the left abused him, they identify with Palin all the more so because like her (but unlike him) they would fight back against such abuse.
So, it doesn't matter whether that's true or not?
Fairly or not, many conservatives feel put-upon and victimized by the left
So, the validity of such beliefs don't matter? Surely, Bush was subjected to a great deal of criticism by the Left. A lot was fair, some not fair. Some totally out of line. The thing is, Bush critics were subjected to a great deal of criticism by the Right. During the Clinton era, Democrats were demonized by the right. Palin was subjected to criticism by the Left, and some was fair, some was not fair. Obama has been subjected to a lot of critcism by all sides, particularly the right. Some is fair, IMHO a lot has not been fair.
My point to all this that the right seems to believe that it is only the Left that plays dirty, and as you said, Palin seems to carry that sentiment forward. It's hardly leadership.
It doesn't matter for
It doesn't matter for purposes of assessing how someone is going to behave, no. Cf. this post, particularly the paragraph accompanying footnote three. People will act based on what they perceive to be true, even if it's later found to be wrong.
They feel victimized because
They feel victimized because for a while they had no media outlet except talk radio, entertainment media leans left, academia leans left. These big institutions have characterized a lot of their beliefs as ignorant or bigoted. Some of this has changed, some of it hasn't changed. When they send their kids to school, the schools will still teach things that are against their beliefs.
So it isn't just about politics, its about everything they deal with in their life. That's the answer to the question on why the Tea Party is so angry. Real anger never comes from politics alone, it always has a social background to it.
Regarding the Clinton era, yes, talk radio conservatives were always very dirty, they argued they had to fight fire with fire, but always thought that the moderates were in control of the message on TV and on the political stage. They blame the pile-on that happened with GWB on moderates, and the full-on offensive with Obama is an intentional attempt to do to Obama what was done to GWB.
Yes, they're feeding the divisiveness, the polarization, nastiness, in politics, but its mostly reactionary. I think there's a fair reason why they feel like victims.
because eff 'em
Why didn't Obama authorize the release?
Because F#*K 'em, that's why.
He did all that's required of anyone to legally establish his birth in Hawaii. He just decided not to feed the burner of the runaway nutburger freight train. The kooky birthers have done more than enough for us to assume they just would have made up stories about whatever got released anyway. Who knows what? Maybe saying a blotch proved it was fake orillegitimate, or this signature looked wrong, or do we have Obama's footprint, or questioning where is the regstrar now. Or whatever.
Palin once again has shown the substantial political ham-fistedness that keeps proving to me over and over and over that she's a not-ready-for-prime-time player. That pattern makes me think she won't ever be ready. She lacks the chops.
She tried to play it a little bit cagey, and she couldn't even really do it. Fact is, she could have shown substantial grace by noting that there is no existing evidence that Obama was not born in the US, in Hawaii, and that's good enough for her. Instead, she used it to bring things around to the victim card she keeps playing.
And that makes her look small, and petty, and whiny.
I am glad Palin keeps getting the spotlight, so that by 2012 she'll have finished alienating most Americans outside the GOP base.
That's precisely backwards
He did precisely the opposite. By resisting these suits on jurisdictional grounds—which, alas, always seem to be pejoratively dismissed as "technical" grounds by laymen—instead of just filing the birth certificate with the courts, he fed the fire. I warned it would happen. IIRC, one of these cases is proceeding to discovery in California, and I suspect that the reason is that the judge there is smart enough to understand that the only chance of putting this to rest is to require Obama to file the certificate. The case can then be dismissed on standing grounds, so everyone will be happy.
Now, of course, I agree that some of this nonsense will persist. The crazies are, well, crazy. But if a court accepts the legitimacy of Obama's birth certificate, or at least offers itself as a proxy through which that material can be entered into the public record and validated, you will detach the core group of crazies who positively believe he wasn't born here from their fellow-travelers who merely have doubts. The latter constitute the bulk of the "movement," I have no doubt, just as the opposition to climate change legislation comprises a large cloud of people who doubt AGW orbiting a small nucleus of people who positively reject it.
And going forward, I continue to agree with Roxanna de Luca's prescription on this point.
US Economy and Palin
Dear Pat,
As an opened minded individual (i.e happy to be proven wrong), who would probably be a Democrat if voting in the US, it strikes me as as strange that the Republican media and public appear to blame Obama for the state of the economy. The global downturn occurred in part at least because of a lack of regulation in the financial industry. Banks, hedge funds, brokers, mortgage companies created products that were often complex, highly risky and sometimes fraudulent, creating a level of public and commercial debt that was totally unsustainable. Finally as we know, a huge financial black hole appeared in the US centric global markets and most of the economies of the Western world were dragged into it, country by country. Even today, more new countries are defaulting on their debts and this stems from practices that went unchecked under George W Bush's Republican presidency.
It occurs to many people in Europe, including myself, that it seems hypocritical to blame Obama for "destroying the economy with draconian taxes on energy", when one of the biggest financial disasters in the history of human civilisation occurred under the previous government. Short of bankrupting the world bank, i'm not sure how Obama could do any worse than Bush. As I said in my opening line, I am happy to be corrected.
Michael, thanks for the question
Michael, always happy to help educate our European cousins about America and our politics. You ask some good questions, but there are good answers to be had.
First, the "lack of regulation" of which you speak is not a Republican or a Democrat phenomenon. The regulations (and deregulations) of the financial industry go back many decades, generally, and have not been seriously challenged by either party. Whichever side is in power at the time something bad happens gets blamed for the entire status quo by the party not in power at that time.
The regulation that gets the most political blame for the financial crisis is the repeal of the Glass-Steagal Act (the repeal of the Act was an initiative of 2 GOP Senators in 1999, but was supported by a large bi-partisan majority in the House of Representatives. This allowed a number of the traditional lines between banks and investment houses to be blurred, which some say led to banks becoming too speculative. However, there are quite a few studies suggesting that in fact the repeal functioned properly throughout the financial collapse, and allowed many financial institutions to survive precisely because they had diversified their assets in ways which would have been prohibited under Glass-Steagal. So that's one significant issue regarding who is "really" to blame for the financial crisis right there (and at any rate, the repeal of Glass-Steagall long pre-dated George W. Bush).
Moreover, DURING the Bush Administration, Congress enacted and President Bush signed the Sarbanes-Oxley law, which tightened accounting controls over large businesses, in the aftermath of the Enron scandal. Generally speaking, there were no significant financial deregulatory acts passed during the Bush Administration, and at least one significant INCREASE in regulations over businesses, Sarbanes-Oxley. And note that it was the Bush Administration Justice Department which prosecuted both Enron and WorldCom, sending the founders and CEOs of those enterprises to jail, as well as destroying the Arthur Anderson accounting firm by charging its corporate entity with a crime. It is, frankly, foolish to say that President Bush somehow fostered an environment of law-breaking within the financial world.
Now let's look at the specifics of the financial crisis. The triggering event was the collapse of the housing bubble. Why did we have a housing bubble? Well, to be blunt we had one because the government-owned financial entities known as Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae used a combination of strong financial incentives and political pressure to encourage banks to issue a lot of high-risk mortgages (high-risk either because the borrowers were relatively poor or, more often, because the loan was for nearly 100% of the value of the purchased property). They bought such mortgages, and were exceedingly influential in creating the entire market for Mortgage-Backed Securities, and their more risky cousins, the collateralized mortgage obligations. It was the massive buying and selling of the MBSs and CMOs by financial institutions who didn't really examine the risks associated with them which led to the explosion of the housing bubble, which was the root of the financial crisis.
And support for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae was, alas, bipartisan. As I noted in The Foreseen Crisis, my own Congressman back then, Republican Richard Baker, was the leader in the fight to impose significantly greater regulations on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as a result of their financial risk-taking. His efforts were opposed by members of both parties, though also supported by members of both parties. For example, Greg Mankiw, who was chair of President Bush's Council of Economic Advisors in 2003, was in favor of Baker's efforts to strongly regulate Fannie and Freddie (as they were called). So too was former President Bill Clinton (though his support became rather tepid when his party's opposition to the reforms mounted). Opposed, however, were people like Democratic Representative Barney Frank (who became chair of the subcommittee overseeing Fannie and Freddie when the Democrats took over in 2008). In the end, Baker was unable to get any Democrats to vote with him, and while he had a majority of his fellow Republicans on the committee supporting him, he could not get enough Republicans to overcome the unanimous Democratic opposition to the bill in the House banking committee. (Note that I'm going mostly from memory here, so I might have a detail or two wrong, but this is the gist of what happened.)
When the housing market collapsed, taking with it a large chunk of Wall Street, there was bipartisan support, among national politicians, for what's now called TARP I, the financial bail-out under President Bush. While rank-and-file Republicans raised a number of serious concerns, in the end Congress passed Tarp I with bipartisan support, passing the House 263-171, with 172 Democrats voting yes, and only 91 Republicans voting yes. In the Senate, the vote was 74-25, and then-Senator Obama (at the time campaigning for the Presidency) voted Yes on the TARP program.
It was the TARP program, and related programs pushed by President Obama shortly after he was elected, which have contributed substantially to our national debt crisis. I think it is fair to say that most rank-and-file conservatives in the country remain opposed to TARP and its progeny, and think they were a severe over-reaction to the crisis by both President Bush and President Obama. So the fact that President Bush supported it hardly makes it "hypocritical" for conservatives generally to criticize President Obama for "destroying the economy with draconian taxes on energy." We didn't support President Bush when he enacted TARP, and many of us were screaming loudly to wait, at least for Just One Week before railroading such a monumental bill through.
Incidentally, I think that's a factor that Europeans, hearing about American politics mostly through media filters, just don't get. The Tea Party movement really, truly is a grass-roots movement of people who got really fed up at the federal government tossing money around like so much free candy. They're pissed at both sides. They're more pissed at the Democrats, because historically the Democrats have been bigger money-spenders than Republicans, and they tend to spend it on things that most of the Tea Party members don't like, but the Tea Party folks really are non-partisan in their opposition to spending. They've been very consistent, on the whole, in rejecting Republicans who won't toe their line on spending reforms. Most of the "moderate" Republicans who got pushed out of their Congressional positions by the Tea Parties in primary elections were not "fiscal conservatives, social liberals or moderates" as the myth would have it. Arlen Specter, for example, was not anywhere close to fiscally conservative. They're tired of spending money we don't have, and they pretty much oppose anybody, Republican or Democrat, who wants to continue spending money we don't have.
Now, back to the financial crisis. I would note in further defense of President Bush that while his Justice Department prosecuted Enron and Worldcom and Arthur Anderson and others, there have been NO prosecutions during the Obama Administration of any prominent financiers for their role in precipitating the financial crisis. Most of the big firms, even the riskiest, survived because of the bail-outs, and are still run by many of the same executives who presided over them while they were making all those risky investments. And the bail-out, by setting a precedent that the market will rely on in the future, has actually, to my mind, increased the risk that those financial officials will take even greater financial risks in the future. It would have been far, far better to have let the market take its course, so that the people who made the most foolish financial decisions were left holding the bag. A lot of decent people would also have been hurt in the process, but the next bunch of guys would think twice before taking on that much risk, because they would have seen the bad things that happened to the last guy who took that much risk.
And finally, there's this point. Even if one holds President Bush entirely responsible for the financial crisis (which is a truly insane and uniformed position to take), it would still not be hypocritical to oppose the imposition of "draconian taxes on energy" on the grounds that they would do serious damage to the economy. Would the economy be helped or hurt, in the short and medium term, by a massive increase in costs and prices which would be caused by the cap-and-trade tax increases on energy production and consumption? Clearly the economy would be damaged rather than helped by such. The cost of electricity rises, the cost of shipping rises, etc. Does it make sense to do more damage to the economy when it is already in a perilous state (even if you think that perilous state was caused by the last President)? Not to me, it doesn't.
Ummm, not exactly...
Here's the thing: I get that a lot of conservatives were, and remain opposed to TARP. A good number of liberals opposed TARP as well. The fact that Bush supported TARP may not compel you to change your mind on the wisdom of the program, but it ought to impose some sense and context with regards to President Obama's blame for the current state of the economy, or the idea that Obama has imposed socialism. A great deal of what the Tea Party opposed in early 2009 (TARP, auto bailout, deficits, spending) started under Bush, so when the Tea Party hit the streets during the early months of April, after pretty much eight years of virtual silence, one cannot be blamed for wondering if what suddenly woke them up was a change in parties in the White House.
Talk radio had already turned
Talk radio had already turned against Bush by that point, they hated him on immigration, and heavily criticized McCain over his support of TARP, arguing that he should have come out against it instead of doing stunts like flying back to DC.
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/01/08/michelle-bush-pre-socialized-the-economy-for-obama/
From my memory, that was the first rumblings of the Tea Party movement, it didn't start with Obama at all. Following their disagreements with McCain on a range of issues, they fell in love with Palin and got upset that the McCain team was restraining her and not letting her speak honestly on the campaign trail. You started hearing grumbling about the 'Republican Establishment.' Eventually they blamed the loss of the election on moderates in the party.
The Tea Party aside though, its possible to think the scale and degree of overreach between the Bush programs and the Obama programs were different. Obama's stimulus plan was not Bush's stimulus plan.
As for TARP, Obama continued what Bush had done, as the
crisis continued on. Keep in mind also that the scale of the crises were different. Talk radio griped, and there were intraparty fights over issues such as immigration, as moderates were pushed out, but the real uproar didn't happen until Obama took office, not to mention that a large chunk of the supposedly non-partisan Tea Party's political approach was to effectively elect ideologically purer Republicans.
Now, with the Ryan budget, they at least have a coherent answer to question of cuts. I have obvious issues with Ryan's budget, but they do at least have a plan.
Yes the real uproar didn't
Yes the real uproar didn't happen until Obama took office, but there was a snowball building up. Conservatives wanted to try to work to change the Republican Party from the inside without any noise -- following Reagan's "Eleventh Commandment", thinking party division would be a sign of weakness -- then later decided that didn't work.
I agree that the non-partisan label isn't honest for most in the movement, what they mean by non-partisan is they support 'conservatives in either party', but somehow I don't think they're going to be looking hard to find conservative Democrats.
I also think they have their electoral history backwards; McCain didn't lose because he was too moderate, but he did lose partly because he started with the spooky Bill Ayers ads late in his campaign at the urging of conservatives in his party. They also blame the fact that Dole was a moderate on their loss in 1996, but in my eyes Dole lost because he made his whole platform about tax cuts (15%!) at a time when people were concerned about the deficit and debt. We were in a good economy at the time so the public didn't understand how tax cuts would help with that. Then, they blame their loss in 1992 on Perot, which also wasn't accurate, since polls show Perot took evenly from both candidates.
And despite the fact that I find sympathy with Tea Partiers feeling like victims, I think they completely misunderstand the problem in government. The solution to everything is always "throw the bums out", throw out the bad guys and get in the good guys. I think a lot of them will be let down when their conservative heroes get into office and find out they act just as bad as anyone they railed against.
Yeah, I think the term partisan needs to be expanded beyond
party labels--they are partisans to movement conservatism. Also, while I recognize that there were those who did speak out--authentic, independent, serious people like a Mitch Daniels or a Paul Ryan, a good number of those now in charge seemed quite selective with their outrage.
Honestly, if the Tea Party had started out as a genuinely nonpartisan movement, free from the out-of-scale rhetoric, continual Obama-bashing (and by that, I mean, as if Obama was the fons et origo of all of America's woes--serious criticism is a different matter), and unwillingness to seriously grapple with the Right's (and not just the GOP's, I mean)record, I'd view them differently. I'd probably still disagree with a lot of their solutions, but it would be different.
Yea, and really conservative
Yea, and really conservative is a party in the broad, original meaning of the term. The conservative movement no more or less organized than were federalists or republican-democrats or whigs.
I don't know if there can really be such a thing as a non-partisan movement, it sounds like an oxymoron to me, but there have been plenty of good watchdog organizations working on debt/deficit issues for years, the most notable one is the Concord Coalition.. http://www.concordcoalition.org/
Heh
Someone used a cool latinism at SF and it wasn't me. ;)
Oh, no!
You're Latin-philia is rubbing off on people! (I started to write Latinophilia, but realized that could be taken the wrong way. I doubt you're especially attracted to Latinos, or Latinas for that matter!)
Yeah, you're not the only one who can whip out Latinisms
at will. :-) The benefits of a semi-classical education are wondrous indeed. Oh, yeah, and Wikipedia....
McCain didn't lose because he was too moderate...
I think he lost because he was too old and lacking in vigor. He had been on the national stage for quite some time, and by the time he won the GOP nom, I think it was pretty obvious he'd lost a lot off his fastball. He might have gotten away with that against a democratic nominee who wasn't especially young, vigorous, passionate, and well-spoken.
But I think the given contrast was too vast to be overcome. I just can't imagine a scenario in which McCain could have beaten Obama under 2008 circumstances without some sort of Obama gaffe or scandal. Romney's only one of the also-rans who would have been a better match for Obama. And now Romney is IMO very damaged goods due to the close association of the Romney-signed MA healthcare law with Obamacare. I don't see how Romney can outrun that. Not in the primaries. Every opponent will jam it right up his rectum, sans lube.
McCain was actually polling
McCain was actually polling pretty close to Obama during some points in the campaign. I think he was hurt because he performed very poorly in the debates -- he was never a good debater, and personally I think because he never really had any strong understanding of what he was talking about but just picked sides on issues he felt sounded right to him -- and because his campaign team tried too hard to create a "narrative" for him instead of letting him be honest. Then when he started running negative ads about Bill Ayers he appeared desperate and ridiculous. He became a joke at that point.
Also remember, McCain won the election among white voters, so its not as if his age could have been his biggest issue. The majority of white people sure didn't seem to care about his age.
Romney was damaged goods back then in 2008 also because the Massachusetts economy did very poorly under his tenure. By the time the financial crisis came around, voters would have pegged him as another one of those rich guys who screwed everyone else with their bad ideas and support of deregulation. As a point of reference, he also consistently polled low among young voters, who tend not to like his politics and also see him as very fake and manufactured. Huckabee consistently polled higher than him.
I honestly think in 2008 McCain had the best chance among any candidates in the Republican field, but he blew whatever chance he had.
Remember...
Remember, McCain was close to neck-and-neck when the bubbles started bursting. He made a horribly melodramatic showing of "suspending" his campaign to rush back to Washington to assist President Bush with dealing with the crisis. But then he offered little of unique value, and of course President Bush had to be very ostentatiously above the fray in dealing with such a significant financial crisis. McCain wound up looking like a politician by trying so hard to not look like one. I think this was what cost him the election (or at least made the loss much less close than it otherwise would have been).
Yes I think that was part of
Yes I think that was part of it. Its what I meant when I said his whole campaign felt scripted instead of genuine... his campaign staff was too busy thinking of things that would make him look like a leader and a maverick instead of just letting him speak off the cuff.
that probably fed into
And that probably fed into the "lost his fastball" impression. Whether it was age per se or not, he very much didn't seem like the same guy during his campaign as he had seemed to be over the past 15 years. I agree that he seemed calculated and scripted in a way that was very foreign to the maverick brand he had nurtured.
And the whole bit about suspending his campaign due to the financial emergency did come across just as Pat described, as a puffed up attempt to look more concerned, like the cavalry. And old-fashioned. The Obama campaign got their response just right, that modern folks need to multi-task, that they have these things called blackberries, etc.
Yea I think it was more how
Yea I think it was how his campaign was controlled tightly by his advisors more than anything.
McCain was never good at debating though, he wasn't good back in 2004 when he was running against Bush either. I always saw him as a bit of a hack in the first place. In the 2004 debate, every few sentences he would pepper in the phrase 'special interests', without any context or explanation or intelligent point to it.
But I think there were much better ways he could have responded in the 2008 than he actually did, and he had some honest things to say, and if his advisors didn't want to script things so much it could have come out better.
I don't think it was so much the appearance of his campaign though; that he appeared old.. The people who liked his positions on issues better than with Obama didn't have a problem voting for him with his old age. The key thing is he needed to convince voters who disagreed with him; and his campaign was inept at doing that.
McCain's biggest failure was
McCain's biggest failure was backing TARP. If he had become a principled opposition to it, like I had hoped, I think he could have won with the suspension of the campaign. As soon as he went along with TARP, his chances of winning were gone for good.
Obama supported TARP also, so
Obama supported TARP also, so its not something on its own that would have made McCain look like a worse choice.
I know some conservatives have argued that if you have a a choice between a "liberal-lite" and a full liberal, the public will choose the liberal, and say thats why McCain lost. But I don't really think you can say that, given the close poll numbers and the number of ways the McCain campaign screwed up their messaging.
Yes, but...
Brian, if you go back to our election posts, you'll see many posts and comments from us to that same general effect, that because the two candidates had the same position on an issue, the issue could not be used to distinguish between the two for deciding who to vote for.
But that's not what's going on with the TARP issue. It's not that McCain's position on TARP was different from Obama's, it was the way he handled it. He rushed back to DC, "suspending" his campaign (whatever that meant), and in the end did nothing more than say "me, too" along with the other candidate. It made him look political and hackish, not statesmanlike. He was acting like this financial crisis was all about him, in some respect, and that he, as a presidential candidate, had some sort of unique executive role to play. Thus, when he added nothing of significance to our efforts to cope with the issue, he looked foolish, or weak.
Well, sure. You're saying if
Well, sure. You're saying if he rushed back to DC and opposed TARP instead of supporting it, people might have looked at it different, and that might very well be true. But I think its also right to say that the thing that hurt his campaign was the stunt and not his position.
I'm kind of making the point that his whole campaign felt scripted and hackish, that the incident we're talking about was only one example of many mistakes, and had he not made any of those mistakes he could have won.